Are you a new or aspiring Tarotpreneur? If so, this episode is a must-listen.
I’ve invited special-guest Benebell Wen back to the podcast to talk about what you need to keep in mind as you start a Tarot business.
Whether you’re already reading Tarot full-time or you’re just starting to think about a Tarot business, it’s important for you to consider the practicalities of running that business.
Maybe you’re just starting to collect some payments and you’re starting to think, “Well, what if this grows? What do I need to do to make sure that I’m covered financially, legally, from a more operational perspective and so on?”
Listen as Benebell and I discuss the practicalities of running a successful Tarot business.
In this episode, you’ll learn:
- What professional Tarot readers need to keep in mind as they set up their online business
- Tips for aspiring or new Tarotpreneurs
- Best practices for funding your Tarot business
- Benebell Wen
- How to Earn $50k or More as a Part-Time Tarot Reader
- Workbook for Devising Your Professional Tarot Business Plan
- Grow Your Tarot Business Online
Brigit: You’re listening to the Biddy Tarot Podcast, and this is Episode 59: The Practicalities of Tarot Business with Benebell Wen.
Welcome to the Biddy Tarot podcast, where you will learn how to connect more deeply with your intuition and live an empowered and enlightened life with the Tarot cards as your guide.
Listen as Brigit and her guests share their very best tips and strategies to help you read Tarot with confidence.
And now, here is your host Brigit Esselmont.
The practicalities of tarot business
Brigit: Hello and welcome back to the Biddy Tarot Podcast. As always, I am super excited to have you here so that we can talk Tarot.
Today, I’ve invited a very special guest: Benebell Wen. Benebell is one of the belles of Tarot, certainly online. She gives so much goodness and value, not just around Tarot and how to use Tarot, but also from a business perspective.
Benebell actually has a background in law and even in helping start-up businesses with venture capital. She’s very well placed to be thinking about the practicalities of setting up a Tarot business.
I’ve invited Benebell to join us today to talk about what you need to keep in mind as you start a Tarot business.
It’s a really interesting conversation because I think it’s relevant not just for the folks who are like, “Yes, I’m doing a business and this is my full-time work,” but also for people who might be just starting or even just thinking about it as a hobby.
Maybe you’re just starting to collect some payments and you’re starting to think, “Well, what if this grows? What do I need to do to make sure that I’m covered financially, legally, from a more operational perspective and so on?”
Sit back, relax and enjoy this interview with Benebell Wen.
Interview with Benebell Wen
Brigit: Well, hello and welcome Benebell. It is such a pleasure to have you back on the Biddy Tarot Podcast.
Benebell: Hi Brigit, thank you for having me back. I love your podcast, so it is an honour to be on.
Brigit: I’m actually just thinking you may be our first returnee to the podcast, so you can wear that special badge.
Benebell: I will wear it proudly. I’m very honoured for that.
We’re going to be talking all about the practicalities of business, in particular setting up a Tarot business. But I’m kind of curious about where you started as a professional Tarot reader and when that started turning into more of a business versus a side hobby, if it has. You might still be somewhere in between, in the middle.
Benebell: It’s interesting. My corporate background is actually in business ventures and helping start-ups and venture capitals. So I’ve always had this sort of foundation in terms of business. But when I started Tarot, I actually wanted to go in a 180 degree direction. I really didn’t want it to be a business.
It was really something that was just supposed to be a hobby, but it sort of snowballed out of control in a sense, but in a very good way and then it became a business. It’s sort of this weird place right now where it’s obviously a business because I’m professionally reading for people that I don’t know and there’s commercial exchange, but it’s kind of a tenuous place right now. It took pretty much four years to get here.
Brigit: Tell me a little bit more. When you say it’s a tenuous place, what does that look like and feel like for you right now?
Benebell: I guess for me, I wasn’t sure if I wanted to take my Tarot practice in a very sort of strict and regimented business perspective, where you’re following classic business models and really basically applying business 101 so to speak, or whether to just sort of break all the rules consciously and just kind of do my own thing.
I think you need to know the rules of business 101 first before you can break them in a very intelligent way, but I’ve tried to steer away from business 101 in terms of just my own practice, but I would never advise people to do that. Does that make sense?
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. In this sort of journey to break the rules and do it, I guess, a little bit more organically, what does that mean for you or what does that mean for your – I don’t want to say business – let’s put them in air quotation marks, “business.”
Benebell: I think everybody started in the same place. We all started doing free readings on one of those forums. For me it was the American Tarot Association – their free Tarot network. For other people it’s TABI. We all sort of start there. Then once we build our confidence, we start reading for monetary exchange.
I kind of had this interim step where I was reading for trade. I would do readings and in exchange people would send me gifts or mail me Tarot cards.
Then I was doing that for a while and then that kind of got out of hand because I had too many random gifts and things around my house and my husband was like, “No, no more free interior décor,” so then I decided to charge for money and that’s where I am now.
Brigit: Okay. Do you have the intention to grow or scale the business in any way? Or is it just to fulfil that desire to read Tarot, but to have a fair exchange for that reading?
Benebell: I think ideally if I was dreaming big, I would love to be able to quit the so-called day job and do this full time because I do feel a strong calling in this direction. For me at this time, that’s not the right place and time for me, but ideally, if I could, I would love to expand it.
Brigit: Okay. Are you putting in place any plans now to make that happen or is it more just feeling it out for the next little while until it kind of makes more sense to let go of the day job?
Benebell: I’m feeling it out for now just to see what good business looks like and also what a dry season looks like.
You know how when you’re an entrepreneur you don’t have a steady pay check. You have certain seasons where it’s just ridiculously abundant, but then you also have dry spells. I think I want more data points.
I like to have big data, so I just want to see if you even out the high points and the low points, what does that look like for a business and whether or not it’s practical for me to then quit the day job and take this to an expanded level.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. That makes sense. Of course. It’s very practical and pragmatic, which is very you.
Brigit: That’s good. Something that you do really well on your website is that you share a lot about Tarot and business, things like tips and templates and checklists.
I think the one that I’ve seen most recently is – it had a really good, catchy title – it was something like How to Make 10,000 in Your Business a Month or something along those lines. Is that right?
Benebell: Yeah, yeah, it was. I wanted to be gimmicky because it was kind of like a toy on those – you know when you scroll through Facebook you see those sponsored ads, where they’re like Make 100 Grand in like five – you know what I’m talking about, right? Those things.
It was kind of a toy on that, but it’s still serious. I was talking about how you could follow a formula and the amount of work that would go into making 50,000 a year, that’s U.S dollars, by doing 27 hours of work per week.
Then I just did the math. I deconstructed it and explained how you get those numbers and how you achieve that.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. And then I’m curious to dive a little bit deeper into that. Say with those 27 hours, is that reading for 27 hours or is that also including sort of the running of the business and the marketing side as well?
Benebell: Running of the business. It was 27 hours dedicated just to the business. I actually talked about how only 13 of those 27 hours were actual readings.
In a week you would only be investing 13 hours of time doing readings for people and then the rest of that time, the balance would be running a business.
Brigit: Yeah. It’s interesting looking at it from an hourly breakdown because that kind of tells you that 50% is doing your craft, but 50% is running and maintaining a business.
I think oftentimes people get into doing a Tarot business without thinking half their time will be in managing the business versus reading Tarot every day.
Benebell: Yeah, yeah. Sort of the blessing/curse is the better your business, the more logistics you have to do.
Brigit: Yeah. I can absolutely, definitely relate to that.
Benebell: I bet you can.
Brigit: Because it’s funny for me, people ask me, “Okay, what do you do?” I’m like, “Well, I’m a Tarot reader and I teach Tarot,” and they’re like, “Oh, okay. What do you do every day?” I’m like, “Yeah, I’m not reading Tarot every day.”
I might be for myself, but at the moment we’re dealing with accountants and lawyers and all that really fun stuff of running a business. It’s completely different.
Benebell: Yeah, it really is. Yeah, it’s keeping track of accounts receivable and accounts payable, which is really unsexy.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. This is stuff that just frustrates me. Luckily I have a husband who kind of enjoys that side of thing, so he does help me, but oh, yeah. There’s a whole side to it.
Let’s sort of scoot back a bit. If we had someone that was just thinking about starting a Tarot business, what would they need to keep in mind?
Benebell: I think one thing I would say, and it’s a little bit off the normal path, is – fund your business with earned money rather than saved money.
I think the reason you want to do that is because it establishes a philosophy of life, a fiscal attitude that’s going to really launch your success in term of entrepreneurship. I think the most successful entrepreneurs know how to seek out investors, they know how to seek out funds from other sources so they’re not always putting their own money on the line.
Now how does that look in terms of Tarot reader? I would say something very simple. Getting a website going, doing a DBA filing, and all of the basic logistics…let’s say the whole package together was 300 dollars, right?
Instead of pulling 300 dollars out of your bank account, which you think is pretty easy to do, don’t do that. I would say try to earn the 300 dollars by doing Tarot readings and get that to be your capital that you launch your business from.
I know it seems like a very minute or subtle distinction, but I think it really establishes a way of thinking about money and a way of thinking about investments that’s going to take the entrepreneur much farther in life in terms of business longevity.
Brigit: Yeah, I think that’s really smart advice because in a way it almost feels like the direction is different. It’s more about forward planning and as you say, have the money first before you’re spending it. Because I think in your mindset your business is more about how do I earn money versus sinking all this money into it and then hoping that you’ll make it back.
I’m not really explaining that right, but the direction is quite different.
Benebell: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Brigit: I often think say with online business, I think there’s a real distinct advantage with an online business versus a local, because typically your start-up costs can be very low – six dollars a month for hosting.
You can have a free website as long as you’re okay with a free theme and you’re ready to go, whereas a local business, sometimes you having to pay rent for a room or you might even have to purchase a place as well.
What other things do you think the start-up Tarot business owner needs to keep in mind?
Benebell: For the 21st century in terms of how Tarot businesses have evolved at this point in time, I would say if you really want to succeed, you need to have a very defined identity. You need to have a clear sense of branding, like who are you, what do you represent, and a clear point of view in terms of your style, your services, the whole package.
For example, Biddy Tarot. If somebody else copied and did exactly what Biddy Tarot did, it is very obvious they copied you, right? Because you have such a clear identity.
That’s what I’m talking about when I’m saying branding. You have to have a brand that’s so clear that anybody else who tries to replicate it, it will so obvious that they’re replicating something that already exists.
That’s why I say you have to think of something that’s very unique or not even necessarily unique, but that has a very clear definition. Do you know what I’m saying?
Benebell: If you can establish that, then you’re off to a very good start. If I think just off the top of my head, all of the most successful Tarot readers: Christiana Gaudet, The Tarot Lady, Kelly-Ann Maddox, Ethony; they all have really distinct styles. You need to have that. You need to have that really distinct style where you know exactly what they’re all about.
When you think of Ethony, we can see her website. When you think of Arwen, you can see sort of her seek joy, that kind of concept.
Establish something that’s unique to your point of view. If you can figure out what that is and what that looks like, I think you’re way ahead of the game.
Brigit: Yeah, something I found with branding, when I first started because I had the corporate background and academic background, I thought okay, I need to present myself professionally. That’s what a professional does, so I’d end up with these really bland blog posts that were sort of written very formally. They would have been for my corporate life, except that they’re about Tarot.
But they just didn’t land at all. It’s taken me probably a good four or five years to get clear on what I really stand for as a business owner.
Thinking of someone who’s just at the beginning of their journey, what advice do you have for discovering what your brand really is? And is it something you discover from day one or is it more of an evolution over time?
Benebell: It’s definitely an evolution. I think it goes back to knowing who you are. I think very few of us can even answer that sort of philosophical question, and then to be able to conceptualise that into a business, it’s very difficult.
But I think it’s okay to make mistakes in the beginning. You kind of throw things against the wall and see what sticks. It’s okay. It’s not going to kill you.
I think just put thing out there. Like you said, you see pretty quickly what works and what doesn’t work. You just take down what doesn’t work and things that really resonate with people, you try to expand upon that.
When it comes to Tarot, because it’s such a personal and interpersonal relationship that you have with seekers and clients, you do want to be more casual and conversational. I think if it’s too formal or when people try to fake it, when people try to be somebody they’re not, it’s really transparent.
I would say don’t even try. Just really be yourself. If you have a cheesy sense of humour, it’s okay, just kind of have your cheesy sense of humour. I think that really takes you further.
Brigit: Yeah. And for yourself, have you found your brand or your voice has changed over time? How has that worked out for you?
Benebell: For me I felt more comfortable revealing more about myself. In the beginning I was a little bit more guarded. I feel like it was my voice, it was authentic to who I was, but it just didn’t reveal a lot about who I was. I didn’t have a lot of personal information.
I think over time as I started building stronger relationships with people I was interacting with over the internet I felt more comfortable and having two books out. I was like, okay, I think now I get a little bit more personal in my writings, rather than before I was trying to keep it pretty textbook academic Tarot and now I’m learning to sort of let that go and be a little bit more just me.
Brigit: Yeah, yeah. Does that feel good? Does it feel nice when you’re in your more authentic self?
Benebell: Yeah, and the funny thing is I think I do better. In terms of your talking about Tarot business, I do better when I’m my authentic self. When I’m sitting there like, “Hi, I’m a Tarot master and blah, blah, blah. I know so much about Tarot.” It doesn’t resonate with people.
People are like, “So what?” People just don’t care. But if you’re personable and you make mistakes and you’re human, I think people really vibe with that a lot better, so my business is much better when I’m myself, funny enough.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. I can definitely relate with that as well when you’re sort of in that, “Oh, I should be like this because I saw this video that told me I should be like this.” Then you’re just like everybody else who’s just watched that video.
Yeah, it’s certainly a journey. All the time, every month, I’m getting clearer and clearer on who I am and it’s always different to the previous month. I don’t think people observing Biddy Tarot from the outside would go, “Oh, she’s different every month,” but on an internal level, I’m like, “Ah, yeah. This is getting clearer and clearer and clearer.”
I don’t know if you also sort of get that feeling too as you get more comfortable in your business I suppose.
Benebell: Yeah, absolutely. I think that actually is a really good testament of growth as a business. It shows that you are expanding in a dynamic way and that you are evolving. I think that’s actually a very clear indicator that you’re doing something right when you’re constantly quote/unquote changing.
Not necessarily changing from an outsider’s point of view, but inside you feel it. I definitely feel that I’ve changed a lot in the last four or five years.
Brigit: Yeah, definitely. Then so a lot of Tarot readers. I think we share a similar journey where you do a few free readings and then you think, “Oh yeah, I could probably charge for this,” and before you know it, you’re actually starting to generate more of a regular income from Tarot readings.
Then you kind of have this oh crap moment, where you think, “Oh, I think I might be a business now,” and you scramble to get all the stuff in place for a business.
What are the things that you really need to have if you’re creating a regular income? Now of course, I’m not asking you for tax advice or anything like that, but what are kind of the things that we need to be thinking about?
Benebell: Actually the more practical advice, rather that sort of the rehash, recycled, quote/unquote legal advice or the more professional advice, the more practical thing is it really depends on how much money you’re making. It has to be a cost/benefit analysis.
For example, is it a general rule that you want to protect your personal liability by registering a limited liability company or a corporation? Yes, absolutely.
But, for example, in California, the annual franchise tax for an LLC is 800 dollars. If you’re business isn’t really making that much more than each year, it doesn’t make any sense whatsoever to register as an LLC, right?
So it really depends on where you are in terms of your business progress. I think a lot of lawyers, a lot of small business owners, even the ones with brick and mortar storefronts, they are sole proprietors.
That’s not a bad thing. It’s okay to just file a DBA and do it as a sole proprietorship as long as you understand what that means. Sole proprietorship just means that it’s linked to your personal account, so there is personal liability in the event that you get sued or whatnot.
But, again, like I said, it’s a cost/benefit analysis. Do you really need to have your windows bulletproof or can you sort of learn to live with a little bit of risk and just do business with a lot of good faith and work from there, one step at a time?
One thing to think about would be that, just in terms of establishing your business, whether it’s a sole proprietorship, whether you’re filing – it’s called a DBA or a fictitious business name in the county that you’re living in – or whether or not you’re filing a business, like an entity.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. I think of my personal journey we started just as sole proprietor and then in Australia it’s moving to becoming a company. That doesn’t really make sense until you get to a certain revenue amount and projected growth and so on.
I think that it’s good advice to just check in where you’re at with your business. Because you might hear other people going, “Oh, yeah, I’ve just turned into a company. Yeah, I’m so amazing,” and you’re like, “Oh, maybe I should be a company too,” and then you’re like oh no, still only maybe just making some pocket money from it.
Benebell: Yeah, and I think another thing is to not get caught up in trends or what everybody else is doing to make yourself feel like you’re more legitimate.
For example, professional Tarot readers might feel very pressured to rent out a space, to have a storefront, but in terms of cost benefit, I don’t know if that’s really worth it. You know what I mean?
I think if you don’t have that overhead and you’re earning all of the income and you have the revenue coming in from ecommerce, why would you have a brick and mortar just to eat away some of your profit?
Don’t just do something just because you think that that’s what successful Tarot readers do, really do something because it makes sense financially for your business.
Benebell: No, not at all. As a lawyer, I would definitely say you need to seek legal counsel. The reason I say that – and it’s not just to protect my butt – it really makes sense because other people don’t know your situation and maybe you don’t even know your situation. A lawyer experienced in picking out these things really quickly, can spot issues before you even knew they exist.
It is important to seek professional counsel. This is not just for a lawyer, but a CPA as well because they can give you really great tax advice and you can learn how to really minimize for example the amount of tax you have to pay. That’s really important.
But again, I think people need to be smart. I think a little bit of risk comes with the territory of entrepreneurship and a lot of the self-made millionaires that I know started off with basically a bunch of crap.
They bootstrap everything. They DIY and do themselves pretty much everything and they make a lot of mistakes, but they slowly learn that the earnings offset some of the costs from making early mistakes and then eventually they get to a place where it makes a lot of financial sense to then hire professional help.
If you’re just coming out of the door, you just graduated from college and you have student loans and you want to start your own Tarot business, and you are using a WordPress account or a BlogSpot account, there’s no reason to hire a lawyer to help you set up a DBA. You have to be really smart about it.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. Certainly in the early days of Biddy Tarot I just created my own little contracts and terms and conditions and it was fine. That kind of thing I think as long as you are treating your customers with respect and you’re showing up and you’re being consistent, it’s very, very, very unlikely you’ll even encounter an issue.
It’s more when you start to grow and you do have a little bit of extra cash that you can invest in getting that professional support as well. I think there’s nothing worse than seeing someone at the start of their business spending a huge amount of money on advice that may not be suited to their size of business.
Benebell: Yeah, exactly.
Brigit: Another thing that you mentioned on your website is around business plans and I’m curious to know, do you have a business plan for your Tarot business?
Benebell: For my Tarot business, no, because I don’t necessarily treat it like a business. But outside of Tarot, I ran other businesses myself. For example, I designed handbags. I was in the fashion industry. And I have a couple of other businesses with people.
I had a business plan. I had plans that you would show investors, proposals for third-party debt financing. I definitely had business plans up the wazoo. I had like ten business plans and different versions based on who was looking at it.
Brigit: Do you think it’s helpful for other Tarot readers to have business plans?
Benebell: If you’re going to be a professional Tarot reader and this is what you’re doing to earn income and put food on the table, yes. Absolutely. I’m not doing it to be put food on the table.
It’s an opportunity for me because it’s a little bit more spiritual, so I can turn this pseudo-business into like a massive social experiment and really get to play around with pricing.
I can take a lot of risk. I take a lot of creative risks just to see what works and what doesn’t work and then I like to report my results on my blog.
Brigit: Yes, you do. Is there anything that we haven’t covered today that you think is really important especially when you thinking about the practicalities of starting a Tarot business?
Benebell: We did touch on one thing which was basically the office management aspect, but people don’t realize how big of an aspect that is until you get started. I think setting up something right from the beginning is really a smart idea.
What I wish I had done was right from the beginning set up some sort of office management system, like a filing system where you know where your accounts are going, where files are going, that you can keep track of your clients, so you have names and personal information – just keeping track of all of that very nitty gritty stuff.
I didn’t do that and I just sort of figured I’d wing it, and then three years later I realized I had 800 clients and I didn’t have any way of keeping track of 800 clients. I would have to sit there and go backwards and sort of reengineer and figure out how to reorganize the filing system and that doesn’t make any sense. For Tarot professionals, really set up a filing system before you start.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely, because I also think there’s a certain level of responsibility when you’re accepting payment. Yes, you’re following through on the exchange of providing the Tarot reading and so on, but there’s also an expectation around professionalism and even managing data and managing privacy and so on.
Benebell: Oh yeah.
Brigit: It’s a little bit tricky because you think you’re starting a hobby and you’re like, “Yeah, I’m just doing this for fun,” and then like you say, lo and behold, whoop there’s 800 clients under my belt and it’s not really a hobby.
Yeah, I think that’s great advice to have that set up sooner rather than later and even before you think that you’re a full business to just be organized around those things.
Benebell: Yeah, definitely.
Brigit: What are you using to manage your 800 clients now? Do you use say an email provider like a CRM, customer relationship management tool, or is it more just through an Excel spread sheet you’re working on?
Benebell: My husband is like a master at programming and he knows how to program things. He basically created his own CRM system using Excel.
Brigit: Yeah, wonderful.
Benebell: I have that privilege, but if you don’t have a husband who knows how to program, then you need to figure something out.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. Awesome.
It’s been so good to pick your brain around the different aspects of starting a business. I feel like we’ve only just scratched the surface here. I think there are so many different elements to setting up a business and making sure that you’ve got everything in the right place.
Tell me, what is coming up next for you in your not-a-business business of Tarot?
Benebell: Well, I still continue it, so my not-a-business business is actually becoming really, really more business-like, so I guess trying to figure out how to negotiate that with my full time job. It’s really been seeping into my full-time job in really dramatic ways, so just trying to figure out how to balance my life is going to be what I’m trying to figure out.
Brigit: As soon as you quit your day job, then let me know because we’re going to have another interview because I think that kind of transition – that is huge. It’s so interesting to get an idea of the mindset and the personal transition that’s going on at that time. I’ll be watching curiously.
Benebell: Yeah, I really admire you for doing it. I can’t do it. I just can’t do it.
Brigit: You can’t do it at this point in time, but you wait.
Brigit: Dropping those little seeds, watch them grow.
Brigit: Yeah. Excellent. Benebell where can people find out more about you?
Benebell: You can go to BenebellWen.com and you can find templates for business plans, checklists; and more into the nitty gritty of tax, accounting, basic copyright intellectual property, things that people just should know when they’re going into business.
I think if you want to download those things, it’s very helpful. Being here in an interview is sometimes difficult to get all of the nuts and bolts that you can get down on a piece of paper that’s a checklist.
Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. We’ll post the link to your site in the show notes which will be at BiddyTarot.com/59. I’ll make sure that we pick out a couple of the more business-oriented posts that you’ve shared as well.
As always, Benebell, it has been an absolute joy and pleasure. You’ve got your second book out now, so I hope that goes really, really well and maybe that’s just another little seed so that you can step into your fullness of being a Tarot reader and teacher. Thank you so much for today. I appreciate it.
Benebell: Well, thank you so much Brigit.
Brigit: Okay, speak to you soon.
Benebell: You too.
Grow your tarot business online
There you have it. That was our conversation with Benebell Wen, all about the practicalities of Tarot business.
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