BTP65: The Animal Totem Tarot with Leeza Robertson

Leeza Robertson, creator of the Animal Totem Tarot joins the Biddy Tarot podcast.

Leeza first came across Tarot in 2005, but she kind of freaked out when she saw the cards. She was like – no way, this is way too complicated. And so, instead she started to look at animal totems and really into the meaning and significance of animals.

Then a few years later, she slowly found her way back to Tarot again, and when she was approached by Llewellyn to create a very special tarot deck, she couldn’t wait. That’s where The Animal Totem Tarot came from.

In this episode, you’ll learn:

• About Leeza Robertson and her journey with Tarot
• The detailed creation process of the Animal Totem Tarot
• The energy behind the Animal Totem Tarot and how to use it
• What’s next for Leeza Robertson

Additional Resources

• Buy the Animal Totem Tarot here
• Five Simple Steps to Read Tarot with Confidence

Podcast Transcript

Brigit: You’re listening to the Biddy Tarot podcast and this is episode 65, The Animal Totem Tarot with Leeza Robertson

VOICE OVER

Welcome to the Biddy Tarot podcast, where you’ll learn how to connect more deeply with your intuition and live an empowered and enlightened life with the tarot cards as your guide.

Listen as Brigit and her guests share their very best tips and strategies to help you read tarot with confidence.

And now here’s your host, Brigit Esselmont.

THE ANIMAL TOTEM TAROT

Brigit: Hello and welcome back to the Biddy Tarot podcast. As always, it’s my absolute joy to be speaking with you all about Tarot. Today I have a really special guest. She is the creator The Animal Totem Tarot and her name is Leeza Robertson. Now, Leeza actually came all the way from Melbourne, same as me. And she’s now living over in the US, and has spent a good decade there. And has just recently moved to Asheville in North Carolina

Leeza says. and you hear us speak about this in the interview, she first came across Tarot in 2005, but she kind of freaked out when she saw the cards. She was like – no way, this is way too complicated. And so, instead she started to look at animal totems and really into the meaning and significance of animals. Then a few years later, she slowly found her way back to Tarot again, and when she was approached by Llewellyn to create a very special tarot deck, she couldn’t wait, so that’s where The Animal Totem Tarot has come from. From her knowledge and insight into the animals and then narrowing that with Tarot. And it’s really a beautiful deck.

I’ve been dabbling with it over the last few months and I’m just finding that it’s layering a whole new frame of reference into my understanding of Tarot.

I’m learning more about the animals and what they mean and then that’s giving a new layer of insight into what the Tarot cards mean. So, I’m really delighted to have Leeza here today just talking about this deck and she goes into some really great detail about how a deck actually gets made; it’s fascinating.

So, without further ado, I want to welcome Leeza.

All right well, welcome, Leeza, I’m so excited to have you here on the Biddy Tarot podcast.

Leeza: Thank you.

Brigit: So where are we speaking, where are you right now? What part of the world?

Leeza: Good question, I sometimes don’t know where I am when I wake up. But, currently I am in a little country town just outside of Asheville in North Carolina in the US. Just under the Blue Mountains here. It’s quite pretty.

Brigit: Wonderful, wonderful. When you’re in that kind of environment where it’s just really beautiful, you can’t help but get inspired and I’m sure that comes through in your work as well.

Tell me a bit about your journey with Tarot. Where did it all begin and did you find Tarot or did Tarot find you?

Leeza: You know, that a really interesting question and I guess it’s not one I think about too often. I was introduced to Tarot in 2005 and I hated it. I thought it was way too complicated. It didn’t make any sense, so I just shelved it and kind of walked away. Now, interestingly enough, the tool that I did pick up was working with animal totems, so after I shelved Tarot in 2005, I really got into working with animal totems and they became like this go-to thing for me. And then the Tarot came around again in 2008, 2009. So yeah, initially I had this really strong hate for Tarot. It is kind of ironic, considering it’s all I do now.

Brigit: Yeah, I don’t blame you, because like when you first look at the tarot cards, and the books and you think, “How am I going to master all of this stuff?” It’s completely overwhelming, so I can totally understand.

Leeza: Yeah, it wasn’t my friend at all.

Brigit: Yeah, and so how are you using Tarot now? Both in your work but also on a personal level?

Leeza: Well, Tarot is kind of my life now, and that’s why I say it’s just so ironic, because we tend to have this real strong resistance to the very tools, which end up guiding the rest of our experience. Anyone who’s ever done a lot of spiritual work probably has a similar story where something was introduced to them or brought up to them and they dismissed it as being wonky or too complicated or too far out there.

And then five or six years later, it’s the devotion of their life. And Tarot for me is one of those things that is truly the devotion of my life. I live and breathe the lessons of these cards. I not only create decks and write books, but I use them in just about every aspect of my experience. I use them for spiritual development, business organization, I use them with my private clients when we coach, we use them for planning and goal setting.

You name it, I probably have a deck of Tarot cards attached to me somewhere, in fact, I’m pretty sure like there’s probably a deck under my pillow. I probably sleep with them as well.

Brigit: Awesome, so tell me, what was the last experience that you’ve had with Tarot? You know, like maybe in the last few days?

Leeza: Well, listen it was today. Cause I’m currently working on a book of Tarot reversals for Llewellyn. Today, I was working with the judgment card, and for me, every time I work with these cards it’s always so relevant to bring what I’ve learned to the experience. And I’m very much on my Buddhist path at the moment. I’m getting ready to do some very intensive Buddhist training, so the Judgment card, as I was working with it today, I was able layer that up with some of the teachings that I’ve had over the last couple of weeks, the dharma lessons, and all of that amazing kind of stuff. So, for me, it’s like every time I come to these cards, there’s something new that presents itself and that’s one of the things that just keeps me so inspired to keep creating and working with these amazing 78 cards.

Brigit: I have the same kind of experience, so, whenever I’m looking at the cards, I’m always seeing stuff that I’ve not seen before. I’m like, “Is that really there all the time? My goodness.” Or even just you know, as things are unfolding in your life and you’re connecting with the Tarot cards, it’s just amazing how many new things you start to see in the Tarot cards. It’s just endless.

And at Biddy Tarot we offer an entry level course, which is Master the Tarot Card Meanings, and I often have people saying “Oh, well I’ve been reading cards for 10 years. Am I going to get anything out of it?” And I’m like, “Goodness yes, of course you are.” Do you ever not learn something when you’re looking at the Tarot cards? It’s inevitable that they’ll be something new in there. So, it’s, yeah good to hear you say that.

Leeza: Well, Brigit, I think also what’s really important for people who are listening to this podcast to understand is, is that getting as many different interpretations of the cards can also trigger some amazing breakthroughs. I love talking to people who don’t see the cards the same way I do. In fact, I seek them out because it deepens our understanding.

I don’t want to just talk to people who agree with me. I want to talk to people who have completely contradictory and opposing opinions on the way I might have viewed or interpreted a card. So, I think that we always get something out of it, especially when someone else is telling a story of each of the lessons that the 78 cards have.

Brigit: Yeah absolutely, it’s funny, I just had this visual of being in a ginormous stretchy balloon, and it’s as if each person introduces a new interpretation, it’s kind of like that stretchy balloon is being stretched even further, and we just open up a space that’s huge for understanding what each of the cards mean.

So, tell me a little bit more about the Animal Totem Tarot, because obviously, you’ve created this deck; it’s amazing.

Leeza: Thank you.

Brigit: And you’ve obviously woven together this passion for both the Animal Totems and Tarot. What’s been the inspiration around this deck?

Leeza: You know that’s such an interesting question, because people ask me that all the time, and I’m like “Well, it actually wasn’t my idea.” Barbara Moore asked me to create this deck, or asked me to think about the possibility of combining my use of animal totem knowledge with Tarot.

And of course, you know, I fainted. It was like, “No, not me I couldn’t possibly do that.” But it was really important from us, from the get-go because every time you create a deck, it’s a team effort, even though I literally created this deck from scratch.

I put all the animals to the cards. I worked out all the dynamics of this deck. I had a very clear vision of what I wanted. I created all of the descriptions for the artists. So, everything in that deck I had a hand in, but we had a very clear vision as a team that we wanted this to be a deck that people who had not picked up Tarot before, but had worked with animal totems could come to this deck and the same as people who’d never done animal totems before but had a little bit of knowledge of Tarot could come to this deck.

It was really set up as this hybrid experience and one of the joys for me has been hearing people’s reaction to the deck and letting me know that we as a team hit that goal. That in and of itself has been an absolute joy. Because, that’s what we wanted to do, that’s why we created the deck. That was the energy that was put into it, so it’s great to know that we did something and created something that has been really helpful and beneficial.

Brigit: Yeah, absolutely. I want to pick up on that piece around it being an entry point. So, if you already know about animals, then it’s a great entry point into Tarot, because you sort of open this gateway between the two and vice versa for Tarot into animal totems. I think that that’s something that helps to make Tarot even more accessible. Instead of looking at the deck and going, “Holy moly this is super complicated,” you’ve at least got a reference point you’re already familiar with. I think that’s really smart and yet, I love to see stuff integrated in that way. It’s very powerful.

Barbara Moore obviously reached out to you. What happened there? How does this stuff come together?

Leeza: How does it come together? Oh geez, well each deck is a different experience. I’m working on another deck right now, with another artist, again with Llewellyn, so each team that comes together works a little differently. For the Animal Totem Tarot I was really blessed to have Eugene Smith as my artist.

He had never done a deck like this before. He’d done one deck for Llewellyn before he came to this project, but he’d never taken on a project quite this deep, so it was just a lot of fun. We had a lot of fun going backwards and forwards over some of the images –  like the art director didn’t know that ring-tailed lemurs actually sat in meditation poses. She thought we were being funny and we had to send her photos and show her we weren’t being funny; this is how they actually sit. And she thought that was the cutest thing ever.

The Four of Pentacles, the squirrel card, which is the cover of the book, that was the very first card that was done. That viral at Llewellyn, like people just were in love with this little squirrel. So, it’s kind of a complicated process.

From beginning to end, it takes 12 to 18 months to do a deck. You have the idea and you design the deck from beginning to end. That goes to submission and then the submission committee decide whether or not they’re going to give that the go ahead.

Obviously, we got the go ahead with the The Animal Totem Tarot. Then it comes back and the artist begins the work. The artist takes the longest time, because they have to do 78 pieces of amazing artwork and there is no doubt that Eugene did amazing artwork for that deck. And then we go backwards and forwards over the images to make sure that they’re right.

You make sure they have the right elements, that technically they’re drawn the right way, the art director has a lot of say over different aspects of the image and then you know, while that’s going on, I then put together the guidebook. Then all of that gets edited and proofed and then you get sent back this huge whooping manuscript where everything’s laid out and it’s the first time you see all of this stuff come together.

And it’s magical. You open this package that arrives from FedEx and angels in a choir, ahhh! And after all that hard work, you get to hold it in your hands, even though it’s just printed out paper. But it’s all laid out and it’s beautiful, and you ‘goo and ga’ over it.

Then you do your last edits and you send it all back and then you don’t see it again until it’s finished.

It’s a very long process. But it’s fun, it’s energizing and totally addictive.

Brigit: Yeah my goodness, I just, I don’t think I could have the patience for such a long process.

But it’s amazing that you do. And I don’t know who I was talking to, but there was someone who was thinking about maybe having a couple of artists working on their deck.

Was that ever a possibility with this Tarot deck?

Leeza: No, Llewellyn does not that work that way. And I’ve got to tell you, I don’t know if I would like to work that way as a deck creator, either because you do bond with your artist. Like their energy gets absorbed in the deck, so does yours, and so does the art director; so I think I would advise against stretching the creative team too far when it comes to deck creation.

Eugene and I had a really great relationship, but I’m really fortunate to work with fantasy artist Julie Dillon this time around on the next deck. She’s been fabulous to work with and as she gets more into the images and she taps more into kind of the vibration of this deck, like more and more magical stuff comes up. So if there’s something to be said about keeping it small and intimate and keeping that creative vortex really tight. But that’s just me, personally as the deck creator. Other people may find that really restrictive.

Brigit: Mmm. Yeah I imagine like the relationship between you and the artist would have to incredibly tight, because ultimately, like you’re dreaming it up in your head and then relying on this person to be able to express it visually.

Leeza: Well, it’s kind of bizarre because I create all the cards first, so that’s part of the submission process. You have to have all the cards written out for the artist under the submission process. You’re looking at a project that takes 18 months from beginning to end. Like from when I say beginning to end, I mean from the time you sign the contract, so it could be six months prior to that your submission went in and they’re only just getting the legal stuff sorted out and you get your contract and then you know, it’s all go.

So, a lot of times I’ll get the sketches back and I’m like wow, that looks really awesome and I check the artist’s description and I’ll say oh yeah I wrote that, didn’t I? Cool. I love the way you interpreted my words. But you forget that you actually like designed this card to look this way. So, it kinda shows up and it’s like this little visual miracle and it’s like wow, that’s cool.

Brigit: Yeah, but so, you don’t have to draw it? Do you just write like I want it to kind of look this way, it’s gonna have a squirrel, there are going to be some little coins in the ground?

Leeza: Right, so you need to.

Brigit: Or do you draw it?

Leeza: Yeah, you need to, as a deck creator, you need to be able to visualize every single card in its finished form and be able to write that in like 100 words.

Brigit: Wow. My goodness.

Leeza: Yeah that’s the hardest part of the whole creative process. It’s really not easy.

Brigit: Yeah, yeah, it’s really good hearing you talk about the process in depth because I think what happens is a lot of people dream about, “Oh I’ll create a Tarot deck one day, wouldn’t that be lovely?” And then you realize, oh that’s what I need to do for that to be created. And I mean, you know, you’ve got the backing of a well-known publisher. A lot of people just start from, from scratch. So, I think that would be quite a different experience as well.

Leeza: Yeah.

Brigit: Excellent, all right well you have a awesome day and we’ll probably be connecting again very soon.

Leeza: Thank you so much, Brigit, you too. Bye.

Brigit: So there you have it, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Leeza: Robertson, creator of the Animal Totem Tarot and remember you can get the show notes including the transcription for today’s podcast and the links to purchase the Animal Totem Tarot over at BiddyTarot.com/btp65. I hope you’ve enjoyed today. I really enjoyed our conversation and I’m really looking forward to speaking with you again next week on The Biddy Tarot podcast, for now have a great week.

Did Llewellyn have much influence over the process or did you have a lot of creative license?

Leeza: I had a lot of creative license. Now, I don’t know whether that’s because my submissions are pretty tight. But no, in fact the, the book as you know, for the The Animal Totem Tarot is kind of on the chunky side, right?

Brigit: Mmm yeah.

Leeza: You don’t wanna be dropping that sucker on your foot. That’s not a normal book size for one of Llewellyn’s decks. But I got really lucky that they kept all of that text in there, because for me it was an important part of that deck that all of those components, all of the breakdowns in the cards. So, for anyone who doesn’t have the deck, the guidebook is broken up into about five different sections. And it was really important for me that that all stayed in there. And I was so blessed that they agreed with me, because I think that is one of the strengths of that deck is the five different sections for each of the cards.

Brigit: Yeah, because I got to tell you, when I get decks and the book is just tiny, I’m thinking, how am I meant to know what the artist intended with this deck?

Leeza: Right.

Brigit: What I appreciate about this deck is you can read it and get of sense of it.

Leeza: Umm hmm.

Brigit: Think I don’t know anything about Puffins. So, I was like okay, what’s in the book? And at least I’m getting a good sense, like oh puffins, they like to have fun, okay, now I get it. If you didn’t have that full guidebook, I think you would lose so much of the intention behind the deck, so I’m glad you got it nice and thick.

Leeza: Well that is true, right? I mean I know that from being a reader, sometimes I want more information from the deck creator. Like, I want them to tell me what does this card mean to them. And often times, I think that we don’t get to experience that with a lot of decks and I think that’s a shame because I think that’s part of the engagement that we have as consumers. It’s to learn from the people who create the decks and part of the first stage in that learning process is the guidebook. And for me personally, I’d like to see more guidebooks with more steps in them in the future.

I would like to see the consumer’s need for more knowledge being recognized by some of these larger publishing houses and independent publishers too, and spending more time on the guidebooks.

Brigit: Mmm, yeah absolutely. And, and I think of, say, when I visit an art gallery, which isn’t as often as I might like, but you know, sometimes you can stand in front of a piece of art and go, “Okay that looks good. Yep, next.” Or you can go and put on those little headphones and listen to the whole story behind that piece of art and then you have a whole new appreciation for it. I think that goes the same for Tarot cards.

Particularly that’s, you know, that’s not like a clone of the right away, which we, most of us know.

Leeza: Right.

Brigit: But if it’s something different, it’s good to know like what, what’s the inspiration? What’s the thinking behind it? And, there’s always room to bring in your own personalized interpretation, I don’t think that’ll ever get taken away.

Leeza: No.

Brigit: Even if you have lots of information. So, yeah we should start a movement: thicker guidebooks with decks.

Leeza: I’m all for it. I’m all for getting Tarot out of the closet and getting into the mainstream and you know, we do that through education.

Brigit: Yeah.

Leeza: it’s that simple.

Brigit: Yeah absolutely. With the Animal Totem Tarot, what kind of readings do you think it’s helpful for? Is there a certain energy around this deck?

Leeza: Oh my goodness, I have seen people use this deck for so many different things. One of the things that I did not want to do was set an intention of how I wanted it to be used. So, while I was putting it together, I cleared that energy out of myself because I wanted people to come to this deck and use it how they thought it would most benefit them. I have seen people use this deck with The Wild Unknown.

I know people read my deck and that deck together. I’ve gotten emails from people who tell me they read those two decks together and they think it’s amazing. I know people who use it for part of their monthly planning. I know people who use it for meditation. I really think it kind of depends on how you incorporate animal totems into your life. Because everyone seems to come to the animals for different reasons. So, I personally didn’t set an intention for the deck and I still don’t give a framework for it. I say explore it and see how it feels for you.

Brigit: Yeah absolutely and, and I’m assuming you don’t have to be an animal lover, I mean, you know, we all love animals.

Leeza: No.

Brigit: But you don’t have to be a diehard, you know animal pictures everywhere to get something out of this deck, right?

Leeza: Oh, absolutely not.

Brigit: And in fact, I mean like I, I’ve just sort of been dabbling with it over the last few months and it’s been interesting, because it gives me like new layer of insight into particular cards. I have sort of a new frame of reference – for example, the Four of Pentacles with the squirrel, that came up for me a couple of weeks ago and I was like oh, this actually gives me a whole different perspective I haven’t seen before. And it wasn’t as if it was something completely contrasting or contradictive to the Rider Waite version of the Four of Pentacles.

Having just the image of a squirrel and then seeing things through the eyes of a squirrel when it came to that card, again, just another layer of understanding. I think this is a great deck, because it’s a whole new frame of reference, which is really neat.

Leeza: Yeah, it’s fun and I have a friend who is really image sensitive, like images for her can either be really threatening or really inviting. And while I was making this deck I actually would show her some of the pictures just to gauge her response. Now, some of them, she struggles with visually, but for the most part she can use this deck, because she uses the animals as such a strong reference. So, that’s important too, and I think it’s something decorators don’t really think about too much. But when people are new to Tarot and they’re coming to Tarot maybe via angel cards, which is the way most people come to it, that’s something I just won’t get into, because I’ve got a whole opinion on that too…

But that visual sensitivity is really something to keep in mind, because we Tarot people don’t think too much of it, it’s normal to us. But for people coming to Tarot for the very first time, out of say something like angel cards, it can seem really threatening, dark, and spooky. So, it is one of those things where the animals can be a nice bridge there.

Brigit: Yeah that’s actually, that’s a really good point, because even say with the Rider Waite, if you’re doing a reading for a client who’s never had a Tarot reading before, firstly they’re coming into that reading going, don’t tell me bad news, don’t tell me I’m going to die.

Leeza: Right.

Brigit: And then you know, oops there’s the Ten of Swords. Then there’s the Death card, and you’re like no, no, it’s not real death, it’s all good. But they’re looking at that image going oh my God this is terrible, I’ve got to get out of here I’m cursed now.

Whereas, I think you’ve got a great point here with the animals. I guess it’s more neutral, but the message is still authentic I suppose and then it’s got the light and shade to it. But, you know, it’s like oh, there’s a cute little animal here, it’s all going to be okay.

Leeza: Right, and it’s not that there’s no harsh images in the Animal Totem Tarot deck. There definitely are. The Three of Swords definitely pulls at the heart strings a little bit; that’s a heavy card. The Devil card is a bit of a heavy card. I mean there are, they’re not light fluffy images but they kind of bridge a gap, and, and as I said, when we are trying to move Tarot into the mainstream, we have to be really conscious of this bridge that we’re building, because these people aren’t Tarot people, and we kind of need to gently show them that this could be something that could be super beneficial and really help them out and give them another set of tools that can be transformational and healing. So, it’s just that shift in our awareness as Tarot people, Tarot instructors and deck creators.

Brigit: Yeah fabulous, excellent, so is there anything that we should know about the Animal Totem Tarot that we haven’t discussed today?

Leeza: Hmm, there are so many things that I don’t know about the Animal Totem Tarot and I created it, like it’s, it’s one of those decks that I don’t work with very often cause I’m writing a lot, so, and when I’m writing, I use very specific decks that we have approved of for each publication, so I tend to work with other decks.

So I come back to this deck every so often and it always kind of blows my mind and I’m like wow, you know, that actually sounds kind of smart, I can’t believe I wrote that. Or, it’s been a while since I connected with that animal and I can sit with that meditation or you know that energy came up, so even I’m still learning from the Animal Totem Tarot.

Brigit: Yeah awesome, awesome so the deck’s available on Amazon right? And?

Leeza: Yes, and Llewellyn. I’m not sure where in Australia it’s available. I have tried to find out, but I haven’t gotten any information. So, I don’t know if you’ve got links to any spiritual stores in Australia, if you want it and they have it, make them buy it. Is that simple? Put in a request and ask them to buy it. Llewellyn is an international publishing house, so if they have other Llewellyn decks there, you can get the Animal Totem Tarot. I always tell people, always ask at your local spiritual store or your local bookstore. Don’t be afraid to ask.

And sometimes they keep them behind the counter. So maybe you know, often times you do have to ask.

Brigit: And we’ll post the link to Amazon, cause I know that Amazon is accessible to most of the world these days and you can find that over at BiddyTarot.com/btp65. What’s next for you? …Seeing that you’re working on another deck and a book. What’s coming up?

Leeza: What’s coming up? Okay, so I have a book coming out, it’s meant to be released for a reader studio so any of those of you people who are listening to this who go to reader’s studio in New York. It’s meant to be released for reader’s studio, which is in April on the Tarot court courts. I finished that book in February, that will be released in April. That’s a whole book just on the court cards and I look at both the Rider Waite and the Golden Dawn system for the court cards in that book.

It’s quite an extensive thick book. I’m excited to see that I haven’t seen the editor’s proof yet so, I’m really excited to see that book laid. I’m currently working on Tarot Reversals for Beginners, which has been an interesting process. We should schedule another interview a year from now around that book, because working, spending six months intensively working with reversed cards is unique, in more ways than one. And the second deck, I can’t talk about that yet, but the artist is about half way to two thirds of the way through the artwork, but I’ll give you a little hint, it has mermaids in it.

Brigit: Awww. I thought you weren’t into all the light and fluffy angel cards.

Leeza: I’m, I’m not, I’m really not. This deck is not going to be what you think. Full disclosure, it won’t be cute and cuddly. It’s actually quite stunning, cause Julie Dillon is an award-winning fantasy artist and her artwork is incredible. There are some truly stunning cards in this deck. But, no it won’t be your like fluffy mermaid stuff. It’ll be deep, digging out that second chakra, working with real water and rebirth kind of stuff, it’ll, it won’t be for the faint hearted.

Brigit: Wonderful, well it sounds really exciting. And where can people find out more about you? Do you have a website? Cause I think I was trying to look for you online and couldn’t find anything.

Leeza: Ah, do, yeah don’t look for me online. Uh, and I’m actually pretty serious, don’t look for me online. I have a Twitter account these days and that’s about it. I don’t do a lot of online stuff anymore for all sorts of reasons. I do have a website, but I wouldn’t go there. I don’t go there. I don’t know why you would go there.

The best, the best bet is to try and connect with me on Twitter. And I am about to release a new meet up group, so once that’s up and running I can shoot that out as well, but I don’t like social media. I find it kind of insidious by nature and over the years, I’ve been less inclined to do websites and more inclined to do interviews and face to face, so as I evolve and change so do my methods of showing up.

Brigit: I love it. So on your terms, that’s good.

Leeza: I don’t care what the rest of the world is doing.

Brigit: Fair enough, well it’s been so good to talk with you, Leeza, and learning more about the Animal Totem Tarot. I thank you for being open about how it all works, cause it’s eye opening, so thank you and I hope the book release is going really well, and court cards and reversals are two of the most challenging aspects for Tarot beginners or even just Tarot readers, so you’ve picked some good topics there.

Leeza: Yeah they picked me, I never pick anything.

Brigit: Excellent, all right well you have a awesome day and we’ll probably be connecting again very soon.

Leeza: Thank you so much, Brigit, you too. Bye.

Brigit: So there you have it, I hope you enjoyed that conversation with Leeza: Robertson, creator of the Animal Totem Tarot and remember you can get the show notes including the transcription for today’s podcast and the links to purchase the Animal Totem Tarot over at BiddyTarot.com/btp65. I hope you’ve enjoyed today. I really enjoyed our conversation and I’m really looking forward to speaking with you again next week on The Biddy Tarot podcast, for now have a great week.

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